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Feature: Real Love - Interview with Deal Real Record Store
Interviewer: Ike Ikwuemesi
Photography: Ike Ikwuemesi + Marcos Moret
The Deal Real Record Store is a hip hop cultural epicentre, emitting serious art-form frequencies from London's West End. We hooked up with three of the four
owners (Tony Tagoe, Vincent Olutayo, and Sef Karma-William Tagoe - Olu Olutayo was absent) to chat
about intimate in-store performances from the likes of Mos Def and Masta Ace, Ghanaian hip-life, UK hip hop's continuing quest for success, and more good stuff.
How did Deal Real come about?
Vincent: Deal Real first opened in 1997 on Noel Street in Soho. I used to be a customer there and so did Sef. Deal Real basically had a bit of a following:
it supported the UK scene and used to do signings every now and again. It was a bit of a meeting spot. It was open for a couple of years and then closed down in
’99. We knew the owner. He said he wanted to sell it on and concentrate on other things, but he wanted it to ‘go to a good home’ to people who would look after it.
There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, but the bottom line is we ended up taking over Deal Real and bought the name.
Was it important you bought that name?
Vincent: The reason we liked Deal Real and what it stood for (and still does) is because at the end of the day it was trying to add to and be a bit of a center
for a community that’s quite fragmented at the moment, especially in the UK. That was the aspect of it that appealed to us the most. There were artists out there
that weren’t getting a lot of attention, weren’t getting a lot of love, so to speak. But they knew that they could go to Deal Real and that we'd would stock the vinyl,
sell the records, and push them. That’s the kind of reputation that it had, and has, and why we decided to step-in.
Was it homegrown artists in particular?
Vincent: Yeah, because, you know I myself am a homegrown artist, a rapper. So that appealed to me particularly - that it had my interests at heart. And all
of us were into hip hop for various reasons – for the culture, the lifestyle – and have been for a very long time. So it meant something to all of us. It seemed to make
sense - we knew what we wanted to do, we knew that there was a gap in terms of there needed to be an institution of sorts that was pushing homegrown hip hop
music. Deal Real before was doing it, albeit as a by-product of who was working there. We’ve now taken it over with a view of doing that a little bit more aggressively,
and hopefully with a bit more of a business attitude to it as well. Still keep it as organic as it always was, but actually try and get the marketing out there, try and
get the press in on it, try and actually make a little bit more noise about what’s going on. Not to say that we’re completely and utterly focused on the UK - that’s not
what we’re about. But, the idea is that it should get equal shelve space as any US/French/whatever import artist.
How did you guys all get together?
Sef: I went to university with Vincent.
Tony: And at the time I was in Oxford as well. We used to have a radio show. They were the boys in town basically.
What was the name of the show?
Tony: It was the student radio in Oxford - mostly run by Oxford University students and at the time Vincent made an enquiry about having a hip hop show
because at the time that was non-existent - or it was just RnB. So later on we learnt there was actually a hip hop show in the plans and we found out who was
doing it, and became part of that show. We sourced out people like Skinnyman, Task Force, Lewis Parker, Apollo, Rodney P…
Sef: Supa T, Company Flow. This was ’94, before Company Flow were known, so they were happy to come to a small studio. They didn’t know there was an
interest in them at the time, but we had our ears to the ground.
L-R: Deal Real's Sef, Tony, and Vincent
Do you stock mainly hip hop in the shop?
Tony: Not predominantly. Soul music, RnB, rare groove. We’ve got classics from the '60s and '50s, collector’s items. We’re trying to broaden the scope.
Some people’s taste in hip hop is very one-sided - just 50 Cent, etc. But hip hop is broader than that, so we’re looking to bring in African hip hop as well – or even call
it ‘hip-life’ – from West Africa.
Do you want to mention a few hip-life acts that we might want to look out for?
Tony: Tumi and The Volume - they’ve just done a live album, and it’s very similar to The Roots, but it has its own polish to it. Tumi’s a South African guy whose
parents were exiled, so he’s lived everywhere - Sweden, the US, Zimbabwe. But now he lives in South Africa.
Tony: Reggie Rockstone - he’s from Ghana and they call him ‘The Godfather’ over there. He hails from Brooklyn, but he’s Ghanaian. Came to England in the early
‘90s and worked with DJ Pogo. He’s gone back to Ghana now and made himself a national hero. He’s also the originator of so-called hip-life music. And there are other
artists such as Shamie who raps in his local dialect of Twi and in English. He’s also just been to South Africa, where he did some shows. But it’s not just them. We
pushed Dwele’s music, we had him down. People like Peven Everett, Liz Fields, Julie Dexter, they come over here. Amy Winehouse is coming next week [that's
taken place now - Ed]
How do you convince such reputable acts to come down?
Sef: Like Vincent was saying, we’re trying to be a bit more aggressive on the business side, and that comes out of it.
Vincent: We’re not just a record shop. People see us as that but we’re all coming from different perspectives and different business backgrounds. And we’re able to
approach these artists and just talk to them. Simple as that.
Tony: They recognize the importance of an independent store doing something like that. So it’s not like they’re doing us a favour. They understand that it’s a
mutually beneficial relationship.
Vincent: We’re not just having the in-stores. The in-stores are important, yes, to give these artists recognition. But at the same time we’ll also try and bring other
artists through. For instance we have an open mic every Friday. So you get artists from all over the country coming over to perform and having an opportunity to get on the
microphone and rap, maybe in front of a camera. And they’re elevating their whole stance. You’ve got people who don’t feel comfortable coming to the West End and now
they’ve got an avenue where we can say “Listen, this is your home from home, where you can relax, you can feel part of something”. Where you can actually approach
these artists and see that these people are just like us: human artists who worked hard to be where they are now. So everyone’s got the opportunity to be where they want
to be, it’s just the way we try and push that across. Not only that, eventually we want to start doing workshops, showing these people about management skills aswell.
What’s been the highlight of the acts you’ve had come and perform so far?
Tony: Our first in-store was Lewis Parker. That was a year ago now - 10th January 2003. Since then, it’s been growing and growing. I’d say Kool Keith was the first
big name. We’ve chatted with Chuck D, and that too was a highlight, of course - beginning to see Chuck D as a person, not just the rapper. Also, people like Mos Def.
What was the Mos Def performance like?
Tony: We didn’t think he was gonna perform because he came to do the play TopDog/Underdog. And then
he just came to the shop on the Friday. The place was jam-packed. The Spooks came on the same day and they couldn’t even get into the building! They performed later
on and had to be able to maintain the same love that Mos Def was able to get, and they did. Groups such as Black Eyed Peas as well. Masta Ace doing Crooklyn -
imagine that!
Vincent: Masta Ace - that was weird. He came on a Wednesday, and we’d sent out the emails that he was coming. And what tends to happen is that people tend
to turn up late for the in-stores. We told them to get here for 6.30pm but come 7pm he turned up and there was no-one here, and he was like, “what? Okay, what’s going
on?”. And we were like “No no, don’t worry, people always turn up late”. And he was like “well, okay, I’m gonna go get some food”. Whilst he was away
the whole place got packed. They were like, “where is he?”. And we said “he’s round the corner, he’s getting some food.” “Yeah, yeah, whatever”. So basically half the
people left. He turns up, and he’d been working with some UK cats - Doze Guys, Psychic Phenomenon, Seani T. So Seani T was with him as well but he’d lost the alarm to
his car so he was late also. So people were starting to get a bit bored and irritated and they thought we were lying. And then they came, started dropping their set. Masta
Ace dropped his lyrics over the top of the Doze Guys tracks that he does, and that went off really well. Then he went off into the old skool stuff. He did Cars, which
obviously went down really well. And then we said “do Crooklyn”. Everyone was going “Crooklyn, Crooklyn!” And he said “nah, I ain’t doing that”. And then one of
our DJs – DJ Snips – just dropped it, and he was like “Aaaaw, alright, fuck it”. And then he went: “we did it like that and now we do it like this!” And basically the place
just went mad! Just went silly. It was heavy, very, very good.
Spooks performing at a Deal Real in-store - Wednesday 21 January 2004
What do you guys think of the hip hop scene at the moment?
Tony: I think that hip hop is still growing, and it’s going full circle. You see, when I was younger such groups as Public Enemy had a message in their hip hop.
Now I think the message isn’t as prominent, or the music has been pushed a lot to this ‘bling bling’ pop and gun-toting hip hop. But there’s so much more. That’s what the
media’s putting across, but there’s a much wider spectrum of hip hop than what’s getting played.
Vincent: I think exactly the same, but from a different point of view. From the consumer’s point of view, or the heads’ point of view, it seems like people nowadays
are not willing to open their minds even a little bit, to actually experience what else is out there. If you look on our racks, on the back wall, you’ll see that the hip hop we’ve
got there is very diverse. But people who come in are very particular. Like, young kids who are into for example Fifty Cent, Dre, Neptunes, will say, like, “yeah, Neptunes
are really pushing the boundaries, rah rah rah”, and you say to them “okay, have you listened to any of Def
Jux?” And they’ll say “yeah - that’s just noise”. And you’re like “well, how do you justify that?” Obviously taste is taste, at the end of the day, and it’s a very personal,
subjective thing. But I think that we, as people who are into this hip hop music, have got to realize that it is a lot wider that what we think it is, and actually be prepared to
experience a lot more in terms of what hip hop is musically.
Okay, so which hip hop acts are you feeling at the moment?
Vincent: Rappers-wise: at the moment for me it’s Vast Aire (Cannibal Ox). Over here at the moment you’ve got Kalashnikov, a UK MC, who’s doing really well.
Tony: I’m looking forward to hearing Mos Def’s new album. I feel Reggie Rockstone. From the UK I’m feeling Fury and I-Tall.
Sef: Prefuse 73. He comes from more from an electronica background, but he does hip hop music. And I’d say TY, Klashnekoff,
Soweto Kinch - the jazz artist, and Orifice from Foreign Beggars.
What do you think of the British hip hop scene?
Vincent: It exists, but you know what? If I’m going to be brutally honest, I think the heads in the UK need to connect to each other more and actually build a proper
scene. Stop seeing it as a hobby and see it as a proper business. Because someone will do a record and even us, as a store, won’t see the releases for up to three
weeks after they’ve been out.
Is that the artist’s or the record company’s fault?
Vincent: No, these are people who are doing it independently. I think that in this country we need to step up our game a little bit more, we need to actually work
together a lot more. Even in terms of promoters: you’ll have four hip hop nights on the same day in the same week. And all the promoters know each other. They’ll try
and book all the same acts, and they’ll all try and flyer the same spots. It’s not gonna work, and no consumer outside of the scene, no label, no clothing label are gonna
invest in something that looks like a shambles.
Tony: When you call it British hip hop, again, you’re putting it into a different section. A lot of people don’t understand that. People will see that Dizzee Rascal
doesn’t fit into the UK hip hop scene, but how can you define what UK hip hop is? The production quality of Dizzee Rascal doesn’t sound like Premier or anything coming
from New York - it sounds completely different. It’s original in that sense.
Could it be that that is the problem - because it’s so diverse? If you compare TY to Dizzee Rascal to Mud Family – it’s apples and oranges?
Tony: That’s what I’m saying - because hip hop’s so broad, we can’t just say that this is British hip hop, and this is [some other hip hop].
Sef: I think the main thing is to treat yourself as a musician before anything else. I might sound harsh but there’s a lot of music that comes into the shop which
sounds like a demo version, pressed on vinyl. I feel that people should take a little more time and develop themselves before they actually record on media.
Vincent: I think also production needs a step up. There’s only a few people who’ve got the production to a point that they’d be able to go to an international arena.
Sef, Alex Eavis, and DJ Inka at Deal Real in-store - Friday 16 January 2004
How do you plan in advance what happens on the Friday in-stores?
Tony: It’s just grown, man. I mean we started off with Lewis Parker because we knew Lewis and we knew he had an album coming out. Then Task Force had just
dropped a new single, and it just snowballed from there. Then it got to the stage where we said “well, it’s just all guys – where are the girls? There are blatantly loads of
female rappers. Right, let’s do a ladies night, invite women only, no guys can touch the mic, let’s respect the ladies out there”. That took off. It’s just growing organically, you
know.
What are the obstacles you’ve found being an independent shop?
Tony: Money. That’s an obstacle. And then also being in a position where people recognize that there’s a lot of value in what we might have to say.
Vincent: This might sound odd, but the whole aim for us being here is to be a pillar of what will hopefully grow one day into a half-decent industry, scene, market,
whatever you call it. We’ve seen more people putting out records than actually buying records! So how are you gonna expect someone to buy your record if you like say,
Jehst or Klashnekoff, but because they’re an artist and you’re an artist, you see them as competition, therefore you’re not gonna buy their vinyl or CD?
Is it that cut-throat?
Vincent: Well, I don’t know whether it’s cut-throat - whether that’s the intention behind it. But that’s the reality of the situation. A lot of people in this scene don’t buy
from other people. I’ve heard people come and say “oh, well I know such and such so I can go and get it off him free anyway”. You know what I mean - that’s an odd
mentality. We’re not creating our own economy.
Sef: You see it here with the open mic sessions. Initially the purpose of the in-stores was to get an artist who had just released something to perform, and then after that
there would be a signing. But what it’s actually become is an open-mic session and a free show.
What are the future plans for Deal Real?
Vincent: Deal Real’s gonna keep maintaining, man. Gonna keep doing what we do best, you know? It’s onwards and it’s upwardly mobile at the end of the day.
We’ve got a following and we’ve got a street team thing happening. We promote solo artists.
Tony: Become self-sufficient. Do stuff not just here but in Africa as well. We’re all from different areas of the world - UK is our home, but we’ve also got another
home.
When you talk about Africa, what did you have in mind?
Tony: Doing concerts in Africa, raising awareness - let’s make hip hop worldwide. In places like China there’s rap. We’ve had rappers come to the shop from
Tanzania, from Japan, from Turkey, rappers rapping in different dialects. I think music is one avenue where you see people smile - music brings joy, happiness, sadness.
It’s important we recognize other places in this world.
Sef: We’re all culturalists; it’s something we’re part of, and we should own it rather than the bigger corporations who take it because it’s the flavour of the month
(and then when it’s not they can throw it back). So we want to be in a position where we’re self-sufficient and don’t need any other external influences.
Do you feel like there needs to be some sort of control, putting the music in "safer hands"?
Sef: Move away from negativity really…
Tony: Kids believe you need to be shot eight times and sell crack to be a hip hop star. And that’s not what it’s about.
Vincent: The thing is…yes you have to have room for your gangsta rappers and your gun-toting and Cristal drinking and all that sort of stuff. But what needs to
happen is that the rest of it – be it your positive, conscious hip hop say from your Mos Defs, De La’s, whoever – needs to get just as much representation. There has to be
room for everything because we can’t ourselves sit here and dictate what should be on t.v. and the radio.
Tony: I think people should come to Deal Real and see what we’re about, for one. Watch channels like Channel U, a new channel on Sky (channel 467). Check
Know The Ledge [laughter]. And look at magazines such as The Fader and Trace. And they’ll see aspects of what’s going on in the hip hop business. Keep your
ears to the ground. Can I also say that we’re not just a hip hop store? We sell books, magazines, DVDs, videos, clothing. We’re trying to bring some up-and-coming designers
such as Dwele Adiyemi - his Cultural Origins clothes line.
Sef: We’re part gallery as well, so we sell prints.
Tony: Yes, the shop itself is a gallery: every month we have different installations by artists from around the world.
Ladies' Night - MC Phoenix and DJ Noora - Friday 16 January 2004
Is that something Deal Real have always wanted to do? Be not just about records?
Vincent: It’s the culture, basically. A big part of the culture is music, but we’re multidimensional, as people, and that’s why we’re here in Carnaby Street. We could
have been anywhere: South London, East London, whatever. But we thought center of town. We’re actually putting out a lifestyle product. We need to be accessible so
that we can actually show people that “well hip hop, okay it’s the music that you see on television, but these are the magazines we read” - all the way from gossip right
through to technology. We don’t just survive on music alone, we need visual stimulus, intellectual stimulus, as well as the clothes and everything else, so that’s what
we’re trying to represent.
Tony: Not only that, we’ve actually worked with people such as Ecko clothing. We did stuff with Footlocker - if you look at www.footlocker.puma.com, you’ll see that the music was arranged by us. We’ve done corporate events as well - Diageo, Royal Elastics.
For Diageo we provided Soweto Kinch, Izzi Dunn. We also manage Steve Ellington at MTV.
Vincent: The reason why all three of us went to University was hip hop: standard. I mean, I know where I grew up, Tony you know where you grew up. It’s the
attitude, it’s your motivation, it’s what drives you, it’s what accompanies you when the world is turning shit. That’s hip hop man!
Tony: It’s true. Even artists…Chris Ofili for instance. You’ll see that he draws so much from hip hop as well. Your
Charlie Darks, your A-Cydes, Blacktronica; we’re all coming from different spheres but I think it’s good that
we’re all growing now and hopefully growing together. Let’s push this thing forward for 2004 and the years to come.
Note:
Deal Real is located at 3 Marlborough Court, London W1F (off Carnaby Street). Nearest Tube: Oxford Circus / Picadiully Circus.
The open mic in-stores take place every Friday from 6.30pm. For other events and for more info, sign up to the Deal Real
mailing list.
RELATED LINKS:
Sign up to the Deal Real mailing list - for info on upcoming in-stores.
PUBLISHED: Tuesday 27 January 2003
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