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Feature: Interview with Dave Okumu (Jade Fox)
Interviewer: Jessica Ramakrishnan
Jade Fox. Jazz. The first is the vilest character in martial arts flick Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. The second is a genre
of music that can be terrifyingly inaccessible to the uninitiated. What can you expect of a jazz band called Jade Fox?
They look and act like a jazz band. One towering band leader on the guitar, Dave Okumu, two men named Tom on drums (Tom
Skinner) and bass (Tom Herbert), Nick Ramm on keyboards, and Volker Sträter mesmerising on percussion. With stints in
Tomorrow’s Warriors and Timeline under their belts, they bear impeccable Brit jazz pedigree.
When Jade Fox get on stage, their references range and rage from Miles Davis to Prince with huge smatterings of African
beats and hip hop stewed into the mix. Their current collaborators and friends are an electrifying lot. In one mere night,
they may back the Mercury Music Prize nominee and rapping jazz prodigy, Soweto Kinch on the saxophone. Then they could back
the cherubic Eska Mtungwazi to perform her sublime Africanised rendition of Sting’s Walking on the Moon and provide
the rhythmic foundations for the ethereal vocals of Bembe Segue.
Variations of this passionate multi-layered performance take place at a monthly night at the Jazz Café. It’s gripping and
powerful stuff but it sure ain’t scary. You’ll probably find yourself embracing Jade Fox’s diverse sounds whatever your
musical persuasion. Band leader Dave Okumu talks to Know The Ledge about performing, Jade Fox, and the current London
jazz scene.
How did Jade Fox get together?
Tom Skinner and Tom Herbert have been friends for years. They’ve been really important to my musical development. They’re my
brothers really. I met them at the Weekend Arts College and we continue playing together after that. In my final year at
university, I started doing the Tomorrow’s Warrior’s jam sessions at the Jazz Café. Tom and Tom were and Eska Mtungwazi was
there. We were just there, developing our sound. I guess she identified that this thing we were doing. She could see we had
quite broad references and encouraged us to hone our language, find our sound and get something going that was really our
own, that really represented what we love about music. It came to us as an amazing challenge. Out of that Jade Fox emerged
in quite an organic way.
What were the early days and the first gigs like?
Our first gig was at WKD. I remember this sensation that I hadn’t really felt before performing. All of us very aware that
we were pretty open-minded about music and were all doing stuff that covered lots and lots of different genres. I remember
the first gig was rammed. There was a whole cross section of people - you could see the hip hop contingent, the rock
contingent, all these different people were kinda grinding away into the music. The response really encouraged me about the
possibilities of how audiences can engage with music that they are not necessarily exposed to. Basically from that point,
I felt a real responsibility plough forward with the project.
What are your own musical influences?
I guess jazz as a genre. The thing about jazz that got to me from the beginning was the concept of improvisation. It just
seemed to make so much sense, the idea of a language of expression that was spontaneous and happened within a context and
structure. It seemed to be a parallel to what it means to be alive – that just resonated from a very early age. The things
I got into in a big way were things like Herbie Hancock and his whole catalogue and all of the stuff Miles did. Having
grown up on Motown, the whole groove and feel thing has always been really important. There are so many things that have
had an impact. It’s probably easier to tell you about the things I am into at the moment. I am getting back into early
Prince – my favourite guitarist and musician of all time – and am into what Radiohead are doing. I find it really exciting
that there is commercial music that is that developmental. I love how they use the post-production facility to find the
ends of their ideas. Philly Soul, D’Angelo’s Voodoo, Bilal...
Bilal – you’ve worked with him, right?
Yes. We met on a writing session for Terri Walker’s album. We wrote the one live track on the album called Dirty Weekend
and one other track that hasn’t been released yet. I’d been so into the D’Angelo album so it was just really cool to get an
insight into how all that stuff works. I am really into the whole Philly scene. When a scene emerges you get a lot of
peripheral approximations of what’s going on. I love the hip hop stuff that’s a parallel to that - stuff like Jay Dee,
Slum Village.
You seem have a long list of impressive collaborations. Who else have you worked with?
The recent things have been that wicked impromptu writing session with Bilal, Terri, and Shaun Escoffrey. Bembe Segue has
been an important project. She’s a prolific song writer. Because she has a specific language and specific way of writing,
it has been a very interesting process figuring out how to represent those ideas. We are in the middle of recording her
album and Dego from 4Hero is producing it. I am also working on Eska’s stuff.
With so many references, influences and collaborators, what is Jade Fox’s own sound?
It’s still a journey of discovery. The definition is starting to happen. There’s been a reorientation towards a song-based
structure to the way we write and the way we are hearing things. Even when we are playing instrumentals, there’s quite a
song-based feel to it. Again, that’s reflective of what we are checking out at the moment. It’s still very much an
embryonic thing - the sound is being defined as we speak.
Is Jade Fox defined by being a live band?
Yes. The thing that we are still trying to work out is a band that can work on many different levels and lots of different
contexts. We did a gig in the Vibe Bar where we were just experimenting and everyone was dancing but we can also do more
formal settings. In May, we developed a project – a tribute to the seventies music of Miles [Davis]. We took that stuff as a
template and developed our music in that way. We took the line up of Bitches Brew and extended our line up to match that
and played our music in that vein. That was in a formal concert hall situation and we went to town on that whole experience
of the performance.
So are there any plans to get into the studio?
We are in the studio at the moment. To attempt to develop the sound, it’s an effective way to deal with that process and
start putting down your ideas, deconstructing, reconstructing and honing them and figuring out what direction they will
develop in. We are basically trying to build a catalogue of material for an album. Some of it will be very live-sounding,
some of it will more programmed, have a post production feel to it. It will depend on the character of each thing - again
it will depend on what we are into. The danger is that we get a mish-mash of styles and it could be very incoherent but
it’s also possible, as with Meshell N'Degeocello's Cookie. There’s every style of music conceivable represented in
it but there’s a sound that ties the whole thing together. You get this real sense that everything is in there for a reason
and that is that she loved it.
How would you describe experimental jazz scene at the moment?
I think the thing that’s really exciting about our scene is that people are really starting to engage with the process of
developing. I think the scene has really struggled in the past because there wasn’t really an infrastructure for development.
In our own little way, we are trying to deal with that with the night that we launched.
So the Jazz Café night is going to be your platform for this?
The main motivation is not about Jade Fox but it’s about our whole scene, to provide a credible, long-term platform to
develop, experiment and to really show what we are capable of achieving. The idea is to provide a home for what’s going on
already and what might happen as a result of what’s going on already. I don’t think a place like that exists.
Are you going to have people like Eska, Bembe, and Soweto Kinch coming to the sessions regularly?
Yes, definitely. The idea is similar to the Black Lily model in Philadelphia - Jade Fox will host each night and feature
different artists. Once established, I hope it will be the kind of thing that people can come and participate in. I want
the night to have a social aspect where people come down and know they are going to get quality music, run into people they
know and have drinks with them. It won’t just be a home for the scene but also a place where new people can come and see
what’s going on. It’s not about exclusivity.
You are quite big on the whole creation of a London sound?
I think it’s great that there are things that represent our culture (like the broken beat scene). I think there’s been a
monopoly of sounds. The standard has been set and naturally people often look to that stuff. Even looking at how people
have responded to Terri Walker’s stuff – as great as she’s doing and she will do really well in the long term – there’s a
part of me that’s really disappointed that given what she has to offer, I would expect more support for what she’s doing.
I think it’s a really problem in this city and country. It’s about supporting your own and not constantly drawing comparisons
with America. I am totally into looking at the value of what we’ve got and making sure we are representing what we’ve got.
With Soweto Kinch’s Mercury nomination and MOBO win, the jazz sound seems like it’s on the verge of breaking through. Is
there a place for your music in the mainstream?
Yes, despite the crap that goes on, I am still pretty optimistic. It’s great the way that Soweto’s profile has escalated so
much. The music is reaching out to people who wouldn’t go out and buy that stuff naturally. Recently, I've been touring
with Terri Walker in universities. The people I met there have got the album or heard of it or had seen him on the Mercury
or MOBOs and they’re like “Wow, this is really cool”. If they could be exposed to that, it opens up a whole field of
possibilities. I think there’s a place in the mainstream but it won’t be achieved by the preferred path of people watering
their shit down and hoping it will sell.
Can we expect a Jade Fox album soon then?
That’s what we are aiming at. Our main concern is developing a sound and getting it actually sounding right. We are funding
it ourselves. It might take a while but the process is underway. It’s coming.
Note:
Jade Fox’s next session at the Jazz Café is on
21 November. From January 2004 the session will take place on the first Friday of every month.
The band is appearing at the London Jazz Festival on 19 November 2003.
RELATED LINKS:
Review of the first Jade Fox session - Jazz Cafe,
24 October 2003.
Review of the Shrine feat. Soweto Kinch - Cargo, 25
October 2003.
Review of Bembe Segue's concert -
Jazz Cafe, 9 March 2003.
Tomorrow's Warriors
PUBLISHED: Monday 17 November 2003
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::: RELATED LINKS
Review of the first Jade Fox session - Jazz Cafe,
24 October 2003.
Review of the Shrine feat. Soweto Kinch - Cargo, 25
October 2003.
Review of Bembe Segue's concert -
Jazz Cafe, 9 March 2003.
Tomorrow's Warriors
Jazz Café
More Reviews
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